The common trig.

General discussion about trigpoints, the TrigpointingUK website etc

The common trig.

Postby Painterman61 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:38 pm

Hello everyone i'm David Phillips and this is my first post on the forum,Was in the Leek area yesterday and was saddened to learn that the common trig had been destroyed. Even more surprising was a log from the OS saying message to all blaggers saying we could be prosecuted for trespassing etc.Could not believe my eyes when i read this after all the OS Gave an award and sent an official to present it to the top trig bagger in the uk.Did he get official permission on every trig most strange,on our visit the field we entered through had no gate attached the land was rough and unfit for grazing on,the fence wasn't even knee high and required minimal effort to step over also there was no livestock whatsoever in the area the whole visit took less than five minutes.Just feel really bad that our innocent visit may have led to the trigs demise i guess some landowners are very defensive of there land and not everyone is easy going.
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Re: The common trig. S3983.

Postby clochandighter » Tue May 30, 2017 11:24 pm

Hi all,

I believe the NFU had a hand in this demise, and the O.S 'legal advice' is somewhat disappointing.

There now follows a transcript of what I have written in the past about access but with some updates.

This sort of thing annoys me, I mean the GOMLism of landowners etc, not the innocent members of public who pursue a harmless hobby.

Most of the British countryside is privately owned, but that does not prohibit access onto open land by the general public on foot. The act of 'trespass' is not illegal, it is just used as a dirty word by certain factions in society.

Open land is exactly that regardless of who owns it, most landowners accept that and are happy for visitors to use it for reasonable recreational use such as walking, photography, enjoying views etc. That extends to trig bagging.

In return the public should observe the country code. Basic common sense examples include: Leave gates as you find them, don't drop litter, don't scare livestock, avoid trampling crops, no fires, no excessive noise, no motor vehicles. Leave only footprints, take only photographs.

However a small minority of the landowning fraternity, farmers' unions and the like still need to accept that legal access entitlement. Open land is open to all - except where a court order has been served against specifically named persons legally banning them from a stated location or area.

Small domestic gardens and gated yards should be avoided unless they are the only means of access to open land, in such situations, permission to use the through route is best sought. Other exceptions are: MoD and railway / aviation ground where unauthorised access will result in prosecution for breaches of security or safety.

But why have the pillar destroyed??? This plot will still be visited, and with the current situation now on record in the public domain, folk are even less likely to ask for humble permission to bag the site. Many will risk taking the stealth approach particularly as there is nothing now to be lost as the pillar has been destroyed. Dare I say it, some visitors may now bear a sense of grudge through the deliberate loss of the pillar on the part of the landowner and cause malicious damage to surrounding property. EVERYBODY PLEASE KEEP VISITING the site of 'The Common' if you are in the area. The message needs to get back to the Farmers' Union via the GOMLs that removing a trig pillar will not stop unwanted visitors from walking through such places.

My feelings about access are somewhat heightened at the moment having received a very nasty GOMLing (Get Off My Land) from a farmer in England at the beginning of this month. Upshot is 'Mrs Farmer' approached me with her mobile phone in camera mode repeatedly photographing me, which didn't bother me because I had nothing to hide. I hadn't broken any laws as far as I was concerned despite her threatening to call the police. At the time I established from her that had I asked for access permission that access would have been flatly denied - so it had paid not to ask. When I openly brought my camera out of my backpack, she moved and stood in front of the pillar refusing to let me photograph it and then continued to photograph me (she doesn't know I carry two cameras, and had already used the first on the pillar / FB / spider; photos already on T:UK). I then turned my camera on her and she forbade me to photograph her, shoving my camera and arm away but not before I got her mugshot! (advised not to publish this on T:UK). I then left but will return at a later date, probably not this year. There is a lot more to this sorry episode but it would take too long to write. I am witholding the identity of this trig as I cannot be sure that this readership has not been joined by any NFU bods or GOMLs. Many of you will already know this woman as she has form. It was unfortunate that T:UK had been down just before I departed for that trip, and I had made late changes to my plans because of a cycling event which had closed many roads in Yorkshire that weekend - so the trigs I visited were mostly unresearched.

While the above incident is very much a minority case, it is that sort of thing which puts people of asking and preferring the stealth approach - something many of us do in practice. Surely the idea of prohibiting people from walking on 'private' open land belongs in previous centuries. The argument "you wouldn't like it if we wandered across your garden" is wasted on me, I live in a flat, plus I was never in anybody's garden, just a big empty field.

I feel another list coming on: A list of trig pillars destroyed by an elite who do not want to share open countryside. There must be around a dozen now in this category.


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Re: The common trig.

Postby G1ANQ » Wed May 31, 2017 11:44 am

Hi Graeme,
Thanks for a really interesting post.
I have only once bumped into a chap who asked me what I was going on his land. There was no farm house or anything in site. He was in a big 4x4. I knew I was off the ROW and, as it happened, on the wrong side of a drainage ditch to the Trig i was trying to get to. I was very polite to him as asked how best to cross the ditch. He said the only way was to go back the way i came and go up the other side. You could see he was wary of what I was doing but wasnt rude. It is good to know that I wasnt doing anything wrong!! Your post has given me more confidence when tracking down Trigs off ROWs. Hopefully the only thing I leave behind IS footprints, oh and some cut brambles or nettles.
I have even visited Trigs in peoples gardens. Very nice gardens! By asking permission at the gate. Not been told no, yet.
So, if you can, always ask permission, if you can find anyone! And if it is ever refused, (Please put this in your log so others know about it) do not try and get to the trig anyway. That way you might put the trig in danger. I would hate to think that one gets destroyed because of my actions.
All the best.
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Re: The common trig.

Postby Painterman61 » Wed May 31, 2017 5:37 pm

Hello grahame thanks for a brilliant write up yet again i agree with your comments.Have had a few incidents with farmers myself in the past including a toe to toe incident what went on over 20 minutes which i only just managed to get away from.The farmer who was a big wiry bloke stood inches from my face screaming and raging on threatening and intimidating,i was on my own in a remote location and i feared for my safety but managed to distract a passing lady driver who could see i was in trouble. Once he saw i had a potential witness he backed off momentarily which gave me time to get into my car and make a quick getaway a lucky escape!
I did not mean any disrespect to perigrinus Rob whose record in the hills and mountains never mind trigs is amazing don't know how he keeps going with all the driving he has to do.
Kind Regards
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Re: The common trig.

Postby agentmancuso » Wed May 31, 2017 5:51 pm

Fundamentally, the issue is political: collective political culture in England is in a state of arrested development. (As usual, Scotland is torn between this and a more progressive Nordic approach.)The aura of sanctity that surrounds "private property" is base superstition.

Property is theft.
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