Why people think it's acceptable to trespass

General discussion about trigpoints, the TrigpointingUK website etc

Re: Why people think it's acceptable to trespass

Postby fasgadh » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:08 pm

Aqueously90 wrote:
I don't have anything further to say, other than I'm glad that north of the border we don't need to have childish arguments about "trespass" and who can restrict access to certain pockets of land. You have some truly beautiful countryside in England, and it's a shame that more people can't experience it to the fullest because of access restrictions.

In this case there is no difference - a garden should be respected just as much here as in the benighted lands. The location of this pillar still would not have any right of access were it in Scotland.

Another thing this shows up is that destroying a pillar is utterly futile. Plenty (of non garden) destroyed pillars on my hitlist.
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Re: Why people think it's acceptable to trespass

Postby clochandighter » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:06 am

Yes, I had read the repeated irrational outbursts by somebody calling themselves 'Amanda', which were posted on TPUK last year.

But why have the pillar destroyed??? The plot will still be visited, and with the track record it now has, folk are even less likely to ask for humble permission to bag the site. Many will risk taking the stealth approach particularly as there is nothing now to be lost as the pillar has been destroyed. Where the situation is a small domestic garden I agree that permission for access should be sought. However, from previous posts, the impression given is that access would be denied.

The fact that this particular ground has now become a private garden is most unfortunate. When the pillar was situated there, this plot must have been more open. So this trig pillar and land have effectively become victims of urban sprawl. Local Government planning officers have a lot to answer for.

However while each case has its merits we have to look at things on the grander scale rather than just small plots of land now belonging people who have made good and have become small time lairds.

The reality is: Most of the British countryside is privately owned. That does not prohibit access onto open land by the general public on foot. The act of 'trespass' is not illegal, it is just used as a dirty word by certain factions in society.

Open land is exactly that regardless of who owns it, most landowners accept that and are happy for visitors to use it for reasonable recreational use such as walking, photography, enjoying views etc. Access having been taken without going 'cap in hand' asking (or grovelling) for permission to visit the great outdoors.

In return the public should observe the country code. Basic common sense examples include: Leave gates as you find them, don't drop litter, don't damage property, don't scare livestock, avoid trampling crops, no fires, no excessive noise. Leave only footprints, take only photographs.

However a minority of the landowning fraternity, farmers' unions and the like still need to accept that legal access entitlement. Open land is open to all - except where a court order has been served against specifically named persons legally banning them from a stated location or area.

I still emphasize that small domestic gardens and gated yards should be avoided unless they are the only means of access to open land, or a trig pillar site. In such situations, permission to use the through route is best sought. That permission should be acknowledged in the logs.

Other exceptions are: MoD and railway / aviation ground where unauthorised access will result in prosecution for breaches of security or safety.

Oh and finally: I am Scottish and live in Scotland. But when I visit England, I bring Scottish Law with me. We are (still) one nation after all. I am more relaxed with the more modern approach we Scots have to outdoor access.
And before anybody squeals at me "You wouldn't like it if we came and trampled all over your garden", like most Scots I live in a flat, despite having worked hard all my days and continuing to do so to make ends meet.

Again: it is not acceptable to have trig pillars destroyed - that will not deter visitors.
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Re: Why people think it's acceptable to trespass

Postby agentmancuso » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:29 pm

Property is theft.
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Re: Why people think it's acceptable to trespass

Postby fasgadh » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:51 pm

Maybe, but a good quality cuppa really does restore you after a wet day chasing concrete pillars.

This thread is such a contrast to the lovely one from The Riddox.
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Re: Why people think it's acceptable to trespass

Postby MAC.HAWK » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:04 pm

Perhaps a more pertinent point is that this trig point could be accessed without trespassing on the owners property. The trig pillar was clearly visible through the fence from the field at the rear of the property (as the 2006/2007 photo's show). OK you couldn't physically stand directly next to the pillar (the fence was between you and it) but you could be close enough to realistically class yourself as having 'tigged' it without bothering anyone.
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Re: Why people think it's acceptable to trespass

Postby stignest » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:52 am

Clearly a thorny issue. My thoughts are that if by destroying the pillar the owners hoped to stop the visits well that dont work. We are a funny bunch and seem to delight at looking for things we know are not there.
As for permissions. Lets firstly assume that the visitors did get permission from someone. Theyre not going to knock on number 25s door if the trig is at number 22. As stated previously just because someone is visiting it doesnt mean they are affiliated to this site. A guy with a man u shirt on doesnt nescesarily play for the team.
As for spoiling the hobby. Most of the sites I visit are on hillsides etc so im not worried about them being destroyed..theres plenty to keep us going. Im suprised that you had the pillar destroyed though. Your property loses a bit of its individuality. Shame it couldnt have been screened off or something. Still as its your land its your choice i suppose. I have visited a few in folks gardens and have always sought permissions. But genuinely if i had one in my garden id expect visitors from the get go.. seems like the folks who buy a house near alton towers then complain about the noise.
Out of interest, how many visitors were you having a week?
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